Curse

Nickhimself · Dec 09, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Look, Ma. Edited post!

Bankai · Dec 09, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

I agree, it's a pain in the butt so many elites are in the torment areas.

Cunning · Dec 09, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

There's no more bosses in the Realm of Torment than there is anywhere else, what's wrong with working for Elites? One of my motivations for finishing the game is to cap all the primary elites for my characters, it gives me a challenge and something to do in PvE.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the current (NF) distribution of elites, they're called elite skills for a reason, so put some effort in.

Nickhimself · Dec 09, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunning

There's no more bosses in the Realm of Torment than there is anywhere else, what's wrong with working for Elites? One of my motivations for finishing the game is to cap all the primary elites for my characters, it gives me a challenge and something to do in PvE.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the current (NF) distribution of elites, they're called elite skills for a reason, so put some effort in.

What's wrong with it? Well, personally I have 10 characters. Each is PvE. Getting all 10 to Torment to cap their classes elites is retarded. That's what's wrong with it.

Moving one or two into the later Vabbi regions is even better, or desolation even. But having to basically finish the game 10 times is BS.

Arkantos · Dec 09, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

If ANet put them earlier in the game, what would be the point of them being in realm of torment too?

Cunning · Dec 09, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

I have 10 characters.

That's your own problem, if you want to use 10 characters then you have to put in 10 times the effort. Don't complain that you have too much work to do when you created the work for yourself.

And how do you determine which elites should be moved to an earlier area? If you moved all the elites to a more accessible area then there would be way too many bosses around.

Quote:

Don't even move ALL of them, just like, one or two. The Ranger, for example, has 3 in one zone. Wtf.

If you only moved some of the elites to closer areas, then you would still have to play through the entire game to get the other ones. What's the point?

dgb · Dec 09, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If ANet put them earlier in the game, what would be the point of them being in realm of torment too?

Killing bad players.

Kai Nui · Dec 09, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Cunning is absolutely right. If you made 10 different characters, I don't see why you expect to somehow make the game easier for you. It completely blows my mind since I've been happy with only one character for over 17 months, and only recently got Kind of a Big Deal and I'm still 9 elites away from Elite Skill Hunter (5) simply because those end game caps are hard. When I do get them, I definitely don't want my time and effort spent getting them thrown away because someone with multiple characters wants them and can suddenly catch up to me with less than half the effort. Seems ridiculous. "Don't complain that you have too much work to do when you created the work for yourself."

slimreb · Dec 09, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Going to have to agree with Cunning. There is no need to move the elites from where they are right now.

I have 13 toons also and have no problems bringing them through the game to get the elites that I want them to have. If you want all the primary elites for each of those toons then do the work for them. I do not feel that ANet needs to change it because someone has a lot of toons.

I also have got Elite Skill Hunter on my first character plus all the other chapter titles and agree with Kai Nui. I put a lot of effort into getting those elites capped and do not see why they need to make it easier to cap.

Plus capping in the Realm of Torment is no harder than capping anywhere else if you have to right party setup. I breezed through those areas with a group setup I made. If you want those elites quickly just do the primary quests and missions until you are down there then go cap.

Antheus · Dec 09, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Many of elites are reasonably easy to cap.

Most of mobs in RoT can be bypassed, single pulled. There are exceptions, but that area isn't as hard as most would make it be. Remember mineral springs, and general shiverpeaks area with henchies only? Now you can add a SF ele and MM to the mix making most of caps a breeze.

10 characters? Yes, that sucks somewhat. I trimmed my collection from 11 to 7. I may at some point bring remaining 4 through NF, but don't plan on doing it right now.

Many of the best elites are extremly easy to cap. Searing flames would be an example of de-facto most useful ele elite that's available from the start. Same with Light of Deliverance.

Overall, the caps work ok. No Feast of Corruption nonsense with caps being 2 zones away, with insane mobs spawns around them.

Nexus Icon · Dec 09, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

I've got Elite Skill Hunter on my warrior, and I've just capped all of the mesmer elites on my mesmer.
There ARE some nice elites in the Realm of Torment that are a pain in the arse to cap for certain classes.
For example, Power Flux in the Domain of Pain.
An absolute nightmare to cap with a mes, I finally got it by setting Zhed up as a perma-blinder using the elite Blinding Surge and getting him to AoE it with Epidemic.
If I didn't have that elite, I would have still been trying to cap Power Flux now, I'm sure of it.

Capping elites is frustrating, especially when you've already capped them all once with one character. In fact, I've made the suggestion before that skill capping should be account based rather than character based; that's how frustrating it is.
Getting through the Nightfall campaign just to open up the areas where the skills are is a pain in the arse, and ridiculously expensive.
By it's very nature, skill capping is a solitary pursuit. So when you get to Torment, you have to have access to top level, well-equipped heroes to make certain elites even remotely possible to cap.

Doing this for 2 characters was almost enough to drive me away from the game, but 10?
When I haven't even got them to cap all of the Prophecies or Factions elites either?
Ain't gonna happen.

And over time, the less variety I have in the game, the more my interest will wane.

I don't think the skills should be moved, but I do have another idea...
How about when you reach a tier in the skill hunter title, make all of the elites you've capped to get that tier available to your other characters?

I know this will still be decried as an easymode solution by people here, but let me raise one final point...

Don't you find it even remotely ridiculous that your heroes are more flexible when it comes to skill selection than your toons?
I think it's a slap in the face when Koss has access to more elementalist skills than my Ele >:E

Nickhimself · Dec 09, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Just scrap this idea, then. It's a great idea to me, none of you have to agree with it for me to still think that, if implemented, would be a nice change.

Made In Ascalon · Dec 09, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickhimself

Just scrap this idea, then. It's a great idea to me, none of you have to agree with it for me to still think that, if implemented, would be a nice change.

It's a great idea for you becuase you screwed yourself over by making 10 characters. It's your job to get every single one of your characters caught up with elites now, not A-Net's. You might as well ask them to put elites like Healing Hands, Incendiary Arrows, and Hundred Blades somewhere earlier than the ring of fire while you're at it.

Undivine · Dec 10, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

This sort of thing never comes up in other online RPGs. People go through the game and aquire everything for each character they make. I think what prompts this kind of attitude is the fact that Guild Wars is a short game with less variety and comparatively less reward for your efforts.

Not that it's a bad game, but it's essentially a RPG story of the type you only get with single-player games, which happens to be online and multiplayer. So multiple play-throughs can be rather tedious.

I'd say their focus shouldn't be making the game easier, but giving more replayability, which incidentally they seem to be attempting. Nexus Icon, on your second play-through, why not choose a different path so that it's less of a chore? If you took Magrid as a hero, next time take Whispers and suddenly you're playing different missions and quests. Unless you don't enjoy the game, but that would just be silly.

Vinraith · Dec 10, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

This sort of thing never comes up in other online RPGs. People go through the game and aquire everything for each character they make. I think what prompts this kind of attitude is the fact that Guild Wars is a short game with less variety and comparatively less reward for your efforts.

Not that it's a bad game, but it's essentially a RPG story of the type you only get with single-player games, which happens to be online and multiplayer. So multiple play-throughs can be rather tedious.

I'd say their focus shouldn't be making the game easier, but giving more replayability, which incidentally they seem to be attempting. Nexus Icon, on your second play-through, why not choose a different path so that it's less of a chore? If you took Magrid as a hero, next time take Whispers and suddenly you're playing different missions and quests. Unless you don't enjoy the game, but that would just be silly.

I'd agree with that. It would definitely be nice to see an increased interest in expanding the replayability of the game, and I'd also agree that Nightfall shows some encouraging signs in that regard.

Syndren · Dec 10, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Have to agree with Undivine. The root of the problem is replay value. I mean in the core or in factions how many times can you stand Rurik/Mhenlo's endless chatter and pretty linear storyline/gameplay. Nightfall does offer some relief but not that much. I am making a second character to explore the other storyline but after that there is really nothing.
A grand example of huge replay value would be NWN. Single player there is almost endless replay value (just as long as you don't always follow the exact same path and character) and multiplayer only enhances the replay value.
What ANET really needs to do is take a step back and see if they can really play through the game 5-6 different times. If you can't, then the replay value is down the hole.
If they created 10 character slots they should at least expect the consumer to play it all at least 10 times over. (Of course the player has to note the amount of effort that goes in multiplies)

So I'll try to get back on topic.
Putting elite skills in hard to reach places = don't mind
Making it enjoyable to replay the whole game to get to that hard to reach place = I care about a lot

Nickhimself · Dec 10, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Made In Ascalon

It's a great idea for you becuase you screwed yourself over by making 10 characters. It's your job to get every single one of your characters caught up with elites now, not A-Net's. You might as well ask them to put elites like Healing Hands, Incendiary Arrows, and Hundred Blades somewhere earlier than the ring of fire while you're at it.

Actually, no.

Nexus Icon · Dec 10, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Nexus Icon, on your second play-through, why not choose a different path so that it's less of a chore? If you took Magrid as a hero, next time take Whispers and suddenly you're playing different missions and quests. Unless you don't enjoy the game, but that would just be silly.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

I agree that the core problem is replayability. The Margrid / MoW choice was nice, but we need more of this and earlier on. I can't actually stand to do my Paragon and Dervish now because I've gotten very bored with Istan very quickly having done everything there in the preview weekend and with my Tyrian warrior already.

Also, to keep it more on topic, maybe what is needed are more bosses that you can cap certain elite skills from, a la Prophecies and Factions.
Look at a skill like Thunderclap; 5 choices of capture location.
That does a lot to relieve the tedium.
It seems that most NF skills can only be capped in one, maybe 2 places. Perhaps this is a sign of how small the continent really is?

_Anubis_ · Dec 11, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

About Elites there is another story. I found it in a thread about Shrines.
And this I fully agree.
Problem is, that somehow ANET had put into the code, that the respawn (after deatch) shrine is activated ONLY if the full party steps near it.
I had many situations, when my party was killed for example, I stepped even on the shrine and what? After death we were respawned... 2 shrines back (!!!!!), with about 20 torment creatures nearby. We lived for about 8 seconds. Then once again - respawn, same place. As the torments propagated, we lived 6 seconds. End of story.

There are about it 2 more issues:

1) ANET forces players to kill everything that moves like a sportswear-fatnecker. You mustn't think -> why? Because there would be couple of other ideas to accomplish. But normal situation is, that in the strategic points, there is a lot of enemies. So finally gotta fight. But as the resurrection shrines, we end up in fighting all in the area.
2) Let's run an example: capturing "Jagged Bones" for Necro. You gotta start in the Abaddon's Gate. Long way to fight it over. Straight after the boss, there is a portal to another area. If You enter this one, You appear in Gate of Madness (I guess this is the name, but may be other - does not matter). What matters is, that if You leave shortly afterwards the same portal to go back, You get into another land. So it means, that You cannot take a "LOGICAL" shortcut, start in Gate of Madness, fight 10 minutes to grab the skill. You have to make the way across Abaddon's Gate and fight everything for an hour or more, IF You are more lucky than in point 1).

Or maybe I am mistaken? Then correct me.

baz777 · Dec 11, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Elites should be challenging to get, hence the name!

My Nightfall Ele now has all Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall elites, (capped the final one last night), together with all non elite skills from all 3 campaigns

Just one query, can’t understand where all my gold went?